[George]

What chokes and loads is everyone using for ducks this year?

Anyone getting any decent prices on steel shot?

Cheers,

George

[MalteseFalcon]

best i've found is nitro steel for $85 per 100 shells.

using half and full steel chokes.

Cheers

Falcon

[George]

Hi Falcon

I spoke with a mate yesterday, and was offered Remington Nitro-Steel for $80 per 100 in Italian sizes 2, 3, 4.

I also tracked down some Winchester Drylok 2.75", 1-1/4oz loads for $175 per 250 in US sizes 2, 3, 4. I like these shells and they offer a saving of about $25 per 250 over the Remington load.

This year I will stick with the LF (0.030") and IM (0.025") chokes out of my Miroku for duck hunting.

Cheers,

George

[Peter O]

Like George I will be running LF and IM chokes and Drylok cartridges but 3" in #2 & #3

[MalteseFalcon]

I've never found the drylocks to be as good as the nirtros for the applications in which I use them. I've generally found the nitros to kill cleaner and further and can justify paying more for that reason. That being said I wouldn't mid trying some drylocks again just to see what they are like now as it's been 3-4 years since I shot em.

I usually use size 2 steel for all my waterfowling, though I have dabbled with 3s and they are lethal over the decoys, even on big honks!

Cheers

falcon

[George]

Falcon,

What shot sizes are your refering too when you talk about 2's and 3's? What applications do you refer too? What chokes and make/model of gun are you using?

George

[MalteseFalcon]

Hey George,

The shot sizes I refer to are the ones on the box. :) I wouldn’t have the faintest whether they are Italian, American or any other size, but they are the steel shot size so in my simple take on things, size 2 and 3 steel is equivalent to size 4 and 5 lead respectively.

The applications I refer to are hunting on open lakes from a blind over a big spread of decoys/silhouettes. While most of the shots are at decoying birds, as I’m sure you’d appreciate, some shots are taken at 40+ yards. And as an indication the species vary from Mountain Ducks to Pink-Ears.

Im shooting out of a Miroku MK-70 and while I wouldn’t know the constriction, it does say clearly on the chokes (“full – steel”, and “half – steel”). They are what I use. I don’t know much about the technicalities but I know this works for me.

cheers,

Falcon

[George]

MalteseFalcon @ Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:28 am wrote:

Hey George,

The shot sizes I refer to are the ones on the box. :) I wouldn’t have the faintest whether they are Italian, American or any other size, but they are the steel shot size so in my simple take on things, size 2 and 3 steel is equivalent to size 4 and 5 lead respectively.

The applications I refer to are hunting on open lakes from a blind over a big spread of decoys/silhouettes. While most of the shots are at decoying birds, as I’m sure you’d appreciate, some shots are taken at 40+ yards. And as an indication the species vary from Mountain Ducks to Pink-Ears.

Im shooting out of a Miroku MK-70 and while I wouldn’t know the constriction, it does say clearly on the chokes (“full – steel”, and “half – steel”). They are what I use. I don’t know much about the technicalities but I know this works for me.

cheers,

Falcon

Falcon

Hi Falcon,

The reason I asked these questions was to get an idea of what you were actually using and how you were using this combination to better understand the results you are getting with the Winchester ammunition. Unfortunately, it is perhaps the technical parts of this issue that may be leading to your dissatisfaction with the Winchester loads. Please excuse the length of information here as it is purely provided to you in order that it might be of assistance.

It’s important to understand there is a difference in pellet sizes between the Remington and Winchester loads – this will have enormous impact on patterning ability and retained down-range energy. Summed up it will vary how efficiently the birds are harvested. The information below is simply there to help you make a more appropriate comparison of loads.

Pellet Sizes are as follows:

Remington #1 = Winchester #2 (0.150 inch diameter)
Remington #2 = Winchester #3 (0.140 inch diameter)
Remington #3 = Winchester #4 (0.130 inch diameter)

Pellet Counts for a 35g/1-1/4oz are as follows:

Remington #1 = Winchester #2 (approx. 156 pellets)
Remington #2 = Winchester #3 (approx. 194 pellets)
Remington #3 = Winchester #4 (approx. 241 pellets)

As for the Miroku MK-70, the bores are traditionally around 0.725” – I know this because I had one as did my brother. Basically, the factory chokes are light in constriction. Your Browning Invector Full-Steel/Modified Lead is approximately 0.013” constriction and your Modified Steel/Improved Cylinder Lead choke is approximately 0.007” constriction. You can confirm this at home or by getting them measured at a gunsmith.

What does this mean?

You’re actually shooting a traditional Light Modified and Skeet choke at ranges out past 40 yards. As I said, I’ve been down this path and those choke combinations only resulted in many wounded birds for me at ranges beyond 40 yards. I did change chokes and went to Briley X2 chokes which were spot on for constriction and the pattern differences were chalk and cheese. In reality, any of today’s aftermarket chokes will give you much better killing performance personally I’d be looking at something like the Carlson’s.

For long range Mountain duck, Black Duck, Hardhead and Wood Duck, I’d be looking at Remington Nitro Steel #1’s or Winchester Drylok #2’s with a choke constriction of 0.025” or 0.030”. Better than both these loads are the Winchester Drylok 3” 1-3/8oz load of 2’s – nothing beats them!

For long range Blue Winged Shoveler, Grey Teal, Chestnut Teal and Pink Eared Duck I’d be looking at Remington #3’s or Drylok #4’s out to 50 yards and Remington #2’s or Drylok #3’s out to 60 yards. Again, if you want to push the range and consistency, the Drylok 1-3/8oz #3's loads are hard to beat.

Cheers,

George

[MalteseFalcon]

Wow!!! Lots to digest there. I know what you mean about cripples out at long distances! I generally try to keep my shots around a max of 35yards now as I believe the art is getting the ducks in real close. But sometimes if I'm pass shooting you don't have that luxury.

I think I need to do some patterning and go from there. U have definitely got me thinking about the winnies tho!

Thanks heaps.

Falcon

[George]

Hi Falcon,

Irrespective of which cartridge you go for patterning is vital. Having said that you need to know the minimum pattern values in a 30" circle at any intended shooting distance.

They are as follows;

Mountain Duck (75-85 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Black Duck (90-100 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Wood Duck (120-130 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Hardhead (120-130 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Blue Winged Shoveler (130-140 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Chestnut Teal (130-140 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Grey Teal (130-140 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)
Pink Eared Duck (130-140 pellet strikes in a 30" circle)

As for pellet sizes vs game bird sizes vs range

Keep to the following to maintain sufficient pellet energy and penetration

Mountain Duck - Rem Nitro 2's 40 yards max, 1's 60 yards max
Black Duck - Rem Nitro 3's 40 yards max, 2's 50 yards max. 1's 60 yards max
Wood Duck - Rem Nitro 3's 40 yards max, 2's 50 yards max. 1's 60 yards max
Hardhead - Rem Nitro 3's 40 yards max, 2's 50 yards max. 1's 60 yards max
Blue Winged Shoveler - Rem Nitro 4's 40 yards max, 3's 50 yards max. 2's 60 yards max
Chestnut Teal - Rem Nitro 4's 40 yards max, 3's 50 yards max. 2's 60 yards max
Grey Teal - Rem Nitro 4's 40 yards max, 3's 50 yards max. 2's 60 yards max
Pink Eared Duck - Rem Nitro 4's 40 yards max, 3's 50 yards max. 2's 60 yards max

Use my previous post to alter from Remington to Winchester if needed.

Falcon, you will find that pattern values will often not be met, particularly with your current chokes and extended ranges. This is were you may need to drop a shot size or go to an aftermarket choke.

Best regards,

George

[Hardtop_110]

Quote:

Winchester Drylok 3” 1-3/8oz load of 2’s – nothing beats them!

Now you have got my attention!

I like George have shot all of the Dryloks (BB, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6) and Nitros in (1, 2, 3, 4) at duck and geese in the NT. While I do believe the Nitro are a good shell, the Drylok is as good and better in some applications.

We all have our favorites and for me it is very hard to go past the Winchester Drylok 3” 1-3/8oz load. I use the following:
BB - #1 for Geese
#1 - #2 for Mountain Duck
#2 - #3 for Black Duck and Wood Duck

I have a few Remington Nitro in #2, #3 & #4 that I have been using on teal.

Now my MK70 story. I bought my brother (Mick) a MK70 a few years back to hunt geese in the NT as he lives there. We found the standard Invector chokes just did not do the job on geese and ducks. I replaced them with a full set of Carlson extended chokes and the difference was huge. That gun has since been sold to a friend up there and it is still killing them.

At the stage you are at the best thing you can do is upgrade your chokes to Carlson. You don't really need to go down to patterning road as both George and I have been there and done it with the MK70 (as well as the MK10, Cynergy, etc). The best thing about these chokes are the marking, Close, Mid and Long range, it's that simple. Personally I use the Close (0.10) and Mid (0.20) over close decoys, Mid (0.20) and Mid (0.20) general waterfowl hunting both decoys and pass shooting, Mid (0.20) and Long (0.30) for pass shooting. The above goes for both geese and ducks, just the shot size and loads vary.

http://ahsa.info/store/product.php?productId=20925

Good luck

[George]

Hardtop_110 @ Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:27 am wrote:

Quote:

Winchester Drylok 3” 1-3/8oz load of 2’s – nothing beats them!

Now you have got my attention!

I like George have shot all of the Dryloks (BB, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6) and Nitros in (1, 2, 3, 4) at duck and geese in the NT. While I do believe the Nitro are a good shell, the Drylok is as good and better in some applications.

We all have our favorites and for me it is very hard to go past the Winchester Drylok 3” 1-3/8oz load. I use the following:
BB - #1 for Geese
#1 - #2 for Mountain Duck
#2 - #3 for Black Duck and Wood Duck

I have a few Remington Nitro in #2, #3 & #4 that I have been using on teal.

Now my MK70 story. I bought my brother (Mick) a MK70 a few years back to hunt geese in the NT as he lives there. We found the standard Invector chokes just did not do the job on geese and ducks. I replaced them with a full set of Carlson extended chokes and the difference was huge. That gun has since been sold to a friend up there and it is still killing them.

At the stage you are at the best thing you can do is upgrade your chokes to Carlson. You don't really need to go down to patterning road as both George and I have been there and done it with the MK70 (as well as the MK10, Cynergy, etc). The best thing about these chokes are the marking, Close, Mid and Long range, it's that simple. Personally I use the Close (0.10) and Mid (0.20) over close decoys, Mid (0.20) and Mid (0.20) general waterfowl hunting both decoys and pass shooting, Mid (0.20) and Long (0.30) for pass shooting. The above goes for both geese and ducks, just the shot size and loads vary.

http://ahsa.info/store/product.php?productId=20925

Good luck

Spot on!

You only need to look at the loads (Drylok 1-3/8oz) which got heads turning and mouths flapping up north. If you want a load that will get them down from up very high up, its this one.

As for chokes, Carlson's really has taken away all the guess work and provided a cost effective means to shooting steel shot reliably and safely.

[chicken]

This may be a silly question....but....

Besides 'Carlson' taking the guess work out with the 'close, medium & long' range of choices...which I may add is perfection in its simplicity...

What makes em better than say....the standard ones?

[Hardtop_110]

Made from 17-4 stainless steel

3/4" extension with parallel for less flyers and denser patterns

All shot sizes up to and including BB can be used in all their chokes Close (IC 0.010), Mid (MOD 0.020) and Long (FULL 0.030).

At the end of the day they are designed in the US for steel shot. The 17-4 stainless is stronger than the standard tubs. The parallel section at the end of the choke seems to pattern a lot better with steel pellets.

Also as George stated earlier the standard Invector and Invrctor Plus chokes are not as marked. The Skeet choke has no constriction, the IC is about skeet, the MOD is about LM, and that is all you can use with steel. I VERY rarely use less than MOD (0.020) with steel shot. You need to use some choke.

[George]

chicken @ Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:07 pm wrote:

This may be a silly question....but....

Besides 'Carlson' taking the guess work out with the 'close, medium & long' range of choices...which I may add is perfection in its simplicity...

What makes em better than say....the standard ones?

Hi Chicken,

Excellent question!

To begin with, you would have noticed earlier posts which explain the issues with some factory choke tubes i.e. not to coventional constriction, not available in tighter constrictions or suitable to non-toxic shot such as steel, poor choke geometry etc.

What makes Carslon's so different to many chaokes?

Carslon’s are constructed from 17-4 PH stainless steel and are perfectly safe to use with steel shot and other relatively hard shot materials out of really tight choke constrictions………..right up to Extra Full (0.040 inch constriction) choke. This is very important as most chokes are not rated for steel shot beyond a Modified (0.020 inch constriction) choke.

The other important feature of Carslon’s is their long (3/4 inch) parallel section. This is the straight cylindrical section at the end of the choke. In a nut shell, this part of the choke largely controls patterning performance. Equally important, these chokes are highly polished which eliminates plastic build-up and are true to size (constriction) which provides predictable and reliable performance.